Stacked ground signals

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Conn-rod
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Stacked ground signals

Post by Conn-rod » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:29 pm

I came across a photo (haven't got a copy) of four ground signals stacked on top of each other. The signals where the white round disc with the red band across the middle. Anyone know what that type of configuration is meant to represent?

I have on the layout I am building four sidings coming off to the right of the line feeding them. Is this how these ground signals could be used? The signals I assume would still be on the left side of the line on the approach to the sidings. If so, in what order would they be; top or bottom one being the first set of points?

David

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Caiptean
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Re: Stacked ground signals

Post by Caiptean » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:02 pm

David,

Subsidiary signals should be on the left-hand side. In broad and brief terms usual practice for many years (before BR) is to have just one to cover all routes going forward as trains should be going slow enough for the driver to see the route they are taking.

Red band on a white background is a stop signal; yellow band on a black background means you can proceed with shunter's (or signal box permission). Yellow shunts are typically used where (say) a shunting locomotive would keep passing the (otherwise stop) signal requiring it to be operated each time. ;)

Subsidiary signals may also be found on full running signals (particularly at large stations) where there are both passenger route(s) and routes into (say) carriage sidings (etc).

Colin
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Brian
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Re: Stacked ground signals

Post by Brian » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:09 pm

For signalling and signal type information this site is very good... [https://signalbox.org/signals.shtml

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Caiptean
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Re: Stacked ground signals

Post by Caiptean » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:44 pm

Brian,

it is a useful website although having started my railway career in the BR(S) S&T not one I have cause visit that often. ;)

This page covers subsidiary signals shewing more than one aspect for multiple routes https://www.signalbox.org/signals/semaphore7.htm although I struggle to find any photographs I took of these.

At a lot of DC locations (but not always) the Southern Region tended to use half-round mechanical subsidiary signals.
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Pulborough September 2007 052.jpg
Pulborough
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Then there are these subsidiary signals on a running signal for a facing route into the Down Carriage Siding. Of the pair the left-hand subsidiary signal relates to the Down Platform Siding (former loop - note the trap points) and so is a right-hand mounted signal.

Ryde St Johns 2008.jpg
Ryde St. Johns Road
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Colin.
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LC&DR
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Re: Stacked ground signals

Post by LC&DR » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:15 pm

It was not uncommon where there were multiple possible routes for small (miniature) semaphore shunt signals (which preceded the use of discs) to be 'stacked', and would apply top = left, bottom = right. The miniature arm signal remained in use on lines of the former LMS quite extensively long after they disappeared from other lines.

Stacking main line running signals was also used when space might be limited and geographic positioning of junction signals would be difficult, the Great Northern Railway somersault signals were frequently used in this manner especially on the approaches to Kings Cross.

When discs replaced the miniature arms where multiple routes were possible stacked discs could be provided although the Southern did not use them as much as the other railways. It was also common for one disc to apply to all routes but with an illuminated route indicator showing a letter or number describing which route was set. London Underground even provided theatre type indicators associated with shunt signals.

Here are both stacked miniature arms and stacked disc signals at Seymour Junction, Derbyshire. Seymour Junction shunt signals.jpg[/attachment]
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Conn-rod
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Re: Stacked ground signals

Post by Conn-rod » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:59 pm

Many thanks for your help. Re "top left, bottom right" all my tracks turn off to the right immediately one after the other, therefore would a stack configuration still apply and which one would be at the top etc? (First one?).
David

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Re: Stacked ground signals

Post by LC&DR » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:05 pm

Yes, top most applies to the first turn off reading left to right, so if all turn-offs are to the right of the main route the topmost applies to the first turn off. Conversely if all the turn offs are left of the main line then the top one applies to the route on the left .
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Conn-rod
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Re: Stacked ground signals

Post by Conn-rod » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:51 am

Excellent! Thanks LC&DR. I can stack them in one place.

David

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