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Old 10-08-2018, 10:34 AM   #1
ajcooper4
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Default Point motor wiring - the right way around!

It's 30 years since I had a layout so no surprises so much has changed. I have got my head around most of the DCC stuff (I think) but I am still genuinely puzzled by one issue.

I am using PL10E point motors with fixing plates and PL13 switches mounted under the point motor for polarity switching. My electrofrog points are snipped and soldered ready for point motor fitting.

Here's the issue: getting the point switching and frog polarity married up.

Brian Lambert's article is helpful but I can't work out this issue from it. I do like his six block terminal approach which keeps things very tidy. Any of you who know his article http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Elect...0page%202.html I am referring to connections 1,2,4 & 5. 3 and 6 are common returns for the point motor and accessory switch (to the frog) respectively.

Is there a simple solution without me wiring up, getting it wrong and frying something?!
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:59 AM   #2
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Treat the two operations as separate functions (which they are) and use six different coloured wires and maintain the colour code across the whole layout.
For example:
Point motor feed black
PM left switch green
PM right switch red
Frog common white
Left rail feed yellow
Right rail feed orange.
Connect the three PM wires first to make sure the point actually changes then do the frog wires. Be aware that using a manual switch as you are doing you can reverse the frog wires and cause a short. If you do just reverse the wires.

I originally used a manual switch for my frogs but changed to the Gaugemaster autofrog modules - very straightforward, cheap and reliable.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:07 AM   #3
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Thank you Steve. I am using blue and brown wiring (no particular reason) for my track feeds. I think, looking at your post, that's yellow and orange to you.

Sounds a dumb question I know but...how will I know there's a short at the frog and, if there is, I am assuming I simply switch wires 4 and 5 using Brian Lambert's six block connection principle?

PS I have a headache!
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:09 AM   #4
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Default Meant to ask.....

I have located an old lap top power transformer. 240 V in and 18 V out. Can I use this to power my point motors via the Gaugemaster CDU?
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:22 AM   #5
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If there is a short the loco will stop on the frog. But before you get to that point test the continuity with a test meter.
That PSU should be fine.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajcooper4 View Post
I have located an old lap top power transformer. 240 V in and 18 V out. Can I use this to power my point motors via the Gaugemaster CDU?
Yes, I would try and obtain a matching DC socket to the moulded plug, then you wont have to cut the moulded plug off and its easy to disconnect/reconnect as need be.

Determine which input termianl is the positive and the other the negative. Generally the negative input termianl (even if marked as AC) will go via the PCB track to the capacitors negative and out to the output negative. This check ensures your DC supply is the correct way around at the input.
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:11 PM   #7
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You need to treat the motors operation wiring separately to that of the frog polarity wiring.

Peco PL10 motors should be wired with 16/0.2mm equipment wire as a minimum. You will need three wires from the motor. Two are soldered to the tabs on one side of the motor (doesn't matter which side, so long as they are on the same side). A third wire is connected to the two tabs on the opposite side of the motor - this one wire links from one tab to the next tab. This is the return connection. In the drawing it goes to terminal block No 3 as a Black wire. The Straight ahead directions coil (Normal) is to terminal block No 1 as a red wire. The turnout directions coil (Reverse) is to terminal block No2 as a green wire. Wire insulation colours don't really matter so long as you use the correct sequence throughout all your motors. But using a common wiring colour code makes installation and later any fault finding simpler!
The above allows the point motor to operate over and back.

The PL13 switch has the remaining three wires and in your case are used for frog polarity switching as you're using Electrofrog. Here you will have a factory fitted frog wire on the point that needs to connect to terminal block number 6. The other side of 6 goes to the PL13 switches off set tab. This leaves two tabs on the PL13 that are closer together. Each of these tabs connect to the terminal block numbers 4 and 5 respectively. On the other side of these are the wires that connect to the rails or if DCC to the bus pair of wires. It is impossible to say which terminal 4 or 5 goes to which rail, as it depends on which way around the PL13 is facing! But if you connect 4 & 5 to the rails or Bus pair and then get a short circuit occur as a loco passes over the closure rail gap and onto the frog (as you have fully modified the points) then simply swap around the two wires in terminals 4 & 5. The wire used for the frog and feeds from the rails or bus can be of a smaller wire size such as 7/0.2mm equipment wire. Again using three different colours of insulation helps identify which wire is doing what. But if you use all the same insulation colours then keep them all to the same configuration as per the motors.
The PL13 switches wiring is shown here..Link to basic PL13 wiring for frog polarity switching
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:25 PM   #8
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I've attached a picture (I think) of the PSU I have found. Any further thoughts?
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File Type: jpg IMG_20180810_120217.jpg (405.3 KB, 16 views)
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:50 PM   #9
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That will be fine with or without a CDU if you're only operating one solenoid at any one time. With a CDU then you can of course operate several motors all at once.
Try to obtain a matching DC socket though.
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:54 PM   #10
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FB thank you. I have the CDU so I will use it to be sure and for stability. This is not an area of expertise for me - I assume the output from this PSU is DC?

Last edited by ajcooper4; 10-08-2018 at 12:56 PM.
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