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Old 26-10-2017, 09:46 PM   #1
StackemEvs
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Default Procedures for loco hauled trains at terminals

Is there seen as standard practices for Loco hauled passenger trains at smaller terminals, thinking such as Fort William or Penzance. Modelling steam era I think run around loops would be seen as a must on any layout plans.

But I'm wondering if practices changed as diesel and electric engines came into service. Generally if loops were available they were still used, but maybe more common for the coaches to be connected and leave on a different engine (not the hassle having to get another one ready there was with steam) or coaches/stock moved by a shunter to another platform or siding thereby clearing the engine.

I'm sure it was initially dictated by the station plan and stock available, but is it considered practices/thinking changed, which could affect layouts and procedures modelled.
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Old 26-10-2017, 10:19 PM   #2
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In more remote terminals the Train Loco would run round and take the same train back, a major terminal the train loco would be uncouple and a another loco would work the train out, normally to a coach siding for cleaning ect....
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Old 27-10-2017, 12:06 AM   #3
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I was a conductor who had to uncouple and couple etc with E&C workings. While originally we were fully trained with the RIC DIC PULL AND KICK and other elements of E&C training (E.G. lifting buckeyes without assistance and without the tool), I found the rules had changed when I actually worked them when they are now not shown so much info. The elements I mentioned above are no longer conductors training but the travelling fitters responsibility. Back to operations. Part of my duties were to contact signalman and control the points, along with uncoupling and coupling which was potentially the most dangerous part of the job, carry out a brake test etc. A run round loop was needed.
In the past, at slightly larger stations locos were uncoupled at one end and a shunting loco or a fresh loco would go on the other end. Also guards didnt do the coupling and uncoupling as a separate shunter (A man employed to uncouple and couple) were provided.
Today, many main line operations tend to be top and tailed with a loco at each end. This is the safest method (As no uncoupling is needed) but it isn't exactly fuel efficient with a "Dead" loco being pulled at the rear.
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Old 27-10-2017, 04:51 PM   #4
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There were as Tinker said different arrangements for reversing trains at terminal stations, pretty nearly all branch termini had run round loops and the locomotive had to be uncoupled and draw forward to pass through points on to the run-round loop, and then re-join its train at the other end. Big city termini on the other hand employed a 'station pilot' to draw off the carriages and whisk them away to carriage sidings for 'tanking' (i.e. filling up the lavatory tanks with water) and cleaning. At some stations this work was performed in the platform, so a run round loop would be required, a good example of this might be Sheerness on Sea, where there were three lines between the platforms, two for passengers to board and alight, the centre one was for engine release.

At places like Liverpool Street with intensive suburban services the incoming engine was detached and a fresh engine attached almost simultaneously while the passengers alighted, and others joined. As soon as the outgoing engine was coupled up and the brake tested the train would depart and the incoming engine would follow it to the platform end. Here it would wait until the junction was clear and after the points were changed and signal cleared the engine would run light to the engine sidings, where after water and coal were topped up if necessary, the loco and crew would await the arrival of the next train and the sequence would start all over again.

Another type of branch train favoured by the Great Western and Southern, but also used elsewhere, was the push/pull train. The loco remained coupled to one end, and the carriage furthest from the loco had windows in the end and driving controls. The controls in the coach were coupled pneumatically to the locomotive which was fitted with remote control equipment. At the terminus the driver changed ends much as they do with multiple unit trains nowadays, so he could drive from the front irrespective of which way round the train was. However the fireman remained in the loco cab, and tended to the boiler, he could in emergency take over the controls to stop the train.

Most terminal stations included a turntable (or a turning triangle) because it was usual to run the engine chimney first. Crew usually preferred to run that way round, even with tank engines.

Like most things there were exceptions. There were stations where the loco had to propel the empty train into sidings after the passengers got off, and run round in the sidings instead. They then had to propel the carriages back again. When the NYMR first started running steam trains again to Whitby this is precisely how they went about it. The run round loops having long been taken away after DMUs took over the services.

Now scroll forward to the diesel era. pretty much all the services which retained loco haulage went about it in much the same way. But of course those branch lines which survived Beeching were on the main converted to DMU /EMU operation. Suburban services too went MU, perhaps one of the last suburban loco hauled were the Kings Cross to Hitchin / Cambridge services.

The long distance trains still needed run round or draw off facilities. The introduction of HST stated to change this which being fixed formation could simply reverse by the driver changing ends. Then Driving Van Trailers were introduced which worked much like the pull / push trains with driving controls provided at the opposite end of the train to the loco. Loco hauled trains are rare nowadays.

Last edited by LC&DR; 27-10-2017 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 27-10-2017, 07:05 PM   #5
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Thanks for all that info Brian, a very interesting read.
Jim.
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Old 27-10-2017, 10:46 PM   #6
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Yes cheers there, a lot of info.

My age takes me back to watching class 50s at Woking, fresh out of Waterloo heading for Exeter, this gave me a love of them and 37s that older people have with steam. Normally sat at Woking were 33s and 73s, these shoeboxes never had the same allure.

Looking at old track plans of Waterloo there doesn't appear to be run around points, so I assume fresh engines were brought in at the other end ready for the departure, or shunters were used for moving stock to carriage sidings till needed again. The only one that was different was between platforms two and three, that had a line through the middle and points allowing engines to run around. I think I'm right in saying this line also ran on to Waterloo East Station line (although others may know better). Also a major factor for Waterloo was probably the introduction of EMUs from a very early date.
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Old 27-10-2017, 11:38 PM   #7
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Waterloo was serviced by 9 Elms i believe, its likely there were a couple of short deadend to stand loco's in for a quicker train turn around time, a connection to the Eastern side i don't think this ever happened.
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Old 28-10-2017, 01:38 AM   #8
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There was a through line at Waterloo that connected to waterloo east station. it was done away with but the rail bridge over waterloo road is still in existence, and was used as a walkway between waterloo and waterloo east.
If you look at track plans for waterloo it is shown on the older plans.
cheers Paul
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Old 28-10-2017, 02:03 AM   #9
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plan of waterloo station on google images type in waterloo station and scroll down
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Waterloo 1895[1].jpg (464.6 KB, 16 views)
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Old 28-10-2017, 08:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southernfan View Post
plan of waterloo station on google images type in waterloo station and scroll down
Well done with the map, didn't see any mention with a google search.
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