Model Railway Forum

Go Back   Model Railway Forum > Model Railway Construction > Wiring & Electronics


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 26-03-2018, 10:24 PM   #1
Wolfie
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ryedale, North Yorkshire
Posts: 139
Wolfie is on a distinguished road
Default OK whats going on?? Controller trouble

OK this one's got me growling...

As you know I had a job lot of series 4 track and that little engine I tarted up. So I make an oval of track and having an old 12v 1A transformer handy I crocodile clip it to the rails and it runs although a bit intermittently.

So I buy a proper Hornby controller, an R8250 and a transformer. When I try it out the loco runs about 18 inches and stops. I check the voltage of the controller and I'm only getting around 8.8v. So I complain hes sold me a duff controller and the bloke sends me another one plus I buy some shiny new modern track enough to make an oval and a proper power track. It all arrives and so I put it together and start it off. It runs about 18 inches and stops...

Once again I check the voltage of the controller and I'm only getting around 8.8v. Grrrrr

OK so the chances of buying 2 controllers with the same fault are probably not good so have I done something to it?? The only two things in common on each attempt are the transformer which appears to be putting out the correct 19v and the loco. Whats going on??

I should mention that the controller was checked with the multimeter while NOT attached to the tracks, and that the loco ran fine when attached to my original 12v transformer with the croc clips on the rails.
Wolfie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2018, 10:34 PM   #2
Mountain Goat
Unique Member.
 
Mountain Goat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK.
Posts: 2,311
Mountain Goat is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Dont connect the transformer direct for this reason. There is no overload cut out should the train leave the rails.
I believe what is happening is your loco needs more current then the controller can supply? It could also be the loco itself needing a checkover. If it has the older X03/X04 type motor, sometimes these can lose their magnetism. Not too difficult to correct. Just may need sending off to be seen to. It may not be this. Contamination (Oil) on the commutator can cause the loco to go a short while and then stop and cut out the short circuit protection etc...
What are your other locos like running with this controller? Hopefully something will run OK?
Is the track clean? Dont use anything abrasive to clean rails. The most abrasive thing I use is a Hornby or a Peco track cleaning rubber. Too abrasive and the scratched surface will mean the wheels struggle to make electrical contact with the rails.

Last edited by Mountain Goat; 26-03-2018 at 10:37 PM.
Mountain Goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2018, 10:34 PM   #3
Walkingthedog
Part time idiot
 
Walkingthedog's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: HAZLEMERE, Bucks
Posts: 10,206
Walkingthedog is on a distinguished road
Default

Your little loco is fairly old and I reckon it is too much for the controller. The controller is overloading and cutting out.
__________________
NURSE,the screens!
Walkingthedog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2018, 10:40 PM   #4
Mountain Goat
Unique Member.
 
Mountain Goat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK.
Posts: 2,311
Mountain Goat is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

These new controllers, if they overload, they need to have the mains turned off, and then wait 30 seconds before turning back on. (Yes, annoying, I know! With better controllers (E.g. Gaugemaster) they cut out and you remove the train or obstacle and they turn back on. ).
What puzzles me is if the controller has tripped, no current should come through. Maybe someone like Flashbang can help. He is an expert with the goings on regarding anything electrical.

Last edited by Mountain Goat; 26-03-2018 at 10:42 PM.
Mountain Goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2018, 12:24 AM   #5
Wolfie
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ryedale, North Yorkshire
Posts: 139
Wolfie is on a distinguished road
Default

The rails are brand shiny new. I don't have another loco until the Princess is finished.
Wolfie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2018, 01:33 AM   #6
Mountain Goat
Unique Member.
 
Mountain Goat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK.
Posts: 2,311
Mountain Goat is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

While it could well mean the pickups and the backs of the wheels may need a careful clean, along with wheel treads, which could pose the issue with intermittent running, I'd say the controller is not the ideal one for these older locos. Ideally I'd go for something decent like the standard Gaugemaster controller (100M) or the dual version (Model D), but because these are not cheap, most modellers settle for a compromise with the Gaugemaster Combi. The Combi does not quite have the power of the 100M or the model D, but it is better then the Hornby trainset type controller which only supplies about a quarter or a third of an amp. For older locos, you really need an amp or preferably an amp and a half to ensure you have enough "Oomph" to power some of the lovely older Triang locos. Mind you, some of those Triang 0-4-0 locos had the more modern type motor which didnt need so much power. Others had the larger X03/X04 type. Either motor type could be used in the Triang little 0-4-0's depending on the date it was made.
The Triang Princess, without doubt, will need a more powerful controller. These had the X03/X04 type motors which are very durable and serviceable, but do use more power.
The little Hornby controllers are normally found with trainsets, and are ideal for the modern low powered motors fitted to the modern little shunters. The more modern little shunters are to be found fairly cheap these days if you want a little loco to run for now. They normally go for anything from £10 to £35 secondhand depending on the individual loco. (£35 being limited condition or one with a rare livery).
Mountain Goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2018, 08:00 AM   #7
Wolfie
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ryedale, North Yorkshire
Posts: 139
Wolfie is on a distinguished road
Default

What I'm trying to work out is why the controllers are only putting out 8.8v, not 12v. Am I damaging them somehow?

The little engine also has an X04 motor
Wolfie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2018, 08:13 AM   #8
yelrow
Senior Member
 
yelrow's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: burgandy france
Posts: 1,066
yelrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Wolfie, hi, as has been mentioned, the older locos need a controller with more grunt. New ones such as Guagemaster, and Morley, will provide this, but they are not cheap. Many of my locos fall into this bracket, and a much cheaper solution, is to look out for a Hamment and Morgan, Clipper, or Duette, which were built like tanks, and come up daily on Ebay for about £20. With one of these, any older loco, you buy, will run perfectly. They have usually been fully tested prior to sale, but for peace of mind, you should have it checked, as with any secondhand item. I have 9 of these now, in daily use. Your new controller, is less forgiving, and they do cut out, if the load becomes great. I have 7, smaller hornby ones, and fairly often, have to unplug and re plug, to reset them. They are, by no means faulty, its a fail safe, and well documented. john
yelrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2018, 08:20 AM   #9
Wolfie
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ryedale, North Yorkshire
Posts: 139
Wolfie is on a distinguished road
Default

You are all missing the point. I get the bit about needing a heftier controller for the old locos.

The controllers are only providing 8.8 Volts, not 12v as I understand they should?

And at what timeframe did the new motors come out. Models after say 1980?
Wolfie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2018, 08:39 AM   #10
Walkingthedog
Part time idiot
 
Walkingthedog's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: HAZLEMERE, Bucks
Posts: 10,206
Walkingthedog is on a distinguished road
Default

Is the 8.8 volts at full power?


The controller you have isnít exactly state of the art. You donít have to have a full 12 volts to make a loco move. It is really just for running one modern loco and the motor in your 0-4-0 and the Princess is pretty hefty and draws a lot more current.
__________________
NURSE,the screens!
Walkingthedog is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.