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Old 14-11-2017, 03:56 PM   #1
rynd2it
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Default I'm confused :(

Hi,

Attached is a small part of our fiddle yard, three turnouts, live frogs polarised via a point motor switch on each. There are double rail breaks where indicated by //

However, I'm getting short indicated from the controller (isolated to this small section) but I can't figure out if I've wired it wrong or the scheme is wrong.

Help please

David
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Old 14-11-2017, 04:03 PM   #2
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What are the red dots?
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Old 14-11-2017, 04:05 PM   #3
Steve M
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Have you reversed the wires on the frog switch by mistake?
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Old 14-11-2017, 04:12 PM   #4
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No obvious reason why you would get a short unless you've wired it wrong.
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Old 14-11-2017, 04:15 PM   #5
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Assuming the red dots are rail feeds you appear to have no Insulated Rail Joiners (IRJs) in all the Vee rails after the frogs.
On Electrofrog points.... Vee rails have IRJs, outer stock rails have metal joiners (Fishplates).

Double check and correct as necessary...
All Vee rails are fitted with IRJs. (Normally 2 IRJs per point).
All rail feeds going to the point change-over switches for frog polarity switching are the correct way around on their switches.
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Old 14-11-2017, 05:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingthedog View Post
What are the red dots?
It's part of my electrical diagram - they indicate the position of the studs on the mimic panel.
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Old 14-11-2017, 05:41 PM   #7
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That makes sense.
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Old 14-11-2017, 05:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashbang View Post
Assuming the red dots are rail feeds you appear to have no Insulated Rail Joiners (IRJs) in all the Vee rails after the frogs.
On Electrofrog points.... Vee rails have IRJs, outer stock rails have metal joiners (Fishplates).

Double check and correct as necessary...
All Vee rails are fitted with IRJs. (Normally 2 IRJs per point).
All rail feeds going to the point change-over switches for frog polarity switching are the correct way around on their switches.
The red dots are NOT track feeds - the only feeds here are the two red/black triangles on the right. There are IRJ's in all the places marked as // which are both rails breaks. There are no rail breaks on the -ve (black) side after T4 and T5 - I suspect I might need to revise that idea. I will also check the polarity wiring from the switches.

But as I said - I'm confused because if I add IRJ's on the -ve side there will never be any continuity to the fiddle yard tracks. Or will there?

Cheers

David
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Old 14-11-2017, 05:59 PM   #9
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OK thanks for clearing up what the red dots are.

Generally with an electrofrog point you add two IRJs to every point. These being fitted to the Vee rail ends. Then frog polarity can be fed and switched by a point motor operated change-over switch or similar switch operated by the points moving tie bar.
Once all IRJs are fitted additional rail feeds of the correct polarity are added after the IRJs.

The only exception is where points feed into dead end sidings and no other rail feed is present after the point. Then the IRJ for that direction (or the two IRJs for both directions if applicable) can be omitted. However, should you later add a feed or alter the track plan and allow a rail feed to come back to any non IRJ fitted point you will get a full short circuit. This is why I suggest you always fit two IRJs to every point and add rail feeds beyond.

This is how I would wire and fit the IRJs...
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Old 14-11-2017, 07:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashbang View Post
OK thanks for clearing up what the red dots are.

Generally with an electrofrog point you add two IRJs to every point. These being fitted to the Vee rail ends. Then frog polarity is fed and switched by a point motor operated change-over switch or similar switch operated by the points moving tie bar.
Once all IRJs are fitted additional rail feeds of the correct polarity are added after the IRJs.

The only exception is where points feed into dead end sidings and no other rail feed is present after the point. Then the IRJ for that direction (or the two IRJs for both directions if applicable) can be omitted. However, should you later add a feed or alter the track plan and allow a rail feed to come back to any non IRJ fitted point you will get a full short circuit. This is why I suggest you always fit two IRJs to every point and add rail feeds beyond.

This is how I would wire and fit the IRJs...
Thank you Flashbang - I believe you have identified my problem. I'll modify it as you suggest and report back.

Cheers

David
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